Wes Anderson: “Some folks who do big things might be better off doing small things”.

The premiere of Wes Anderson’s new film The Phoenician Scheme took place in the official competition at Cannes. The film tells the story of an eccentric European billionaire, Anatole "Zsa-Zsa" Korda, and his entanglements with death, money, and his own daughter. Wes Anderson rarely gives interviews, but Nataliia Serebriakova had the chance to speak with him and his cast — Benicio del Toro, Michael Cera, and Mia Threapleton — during a roundtable conversation about the filmmaking process, the characters’ costumes, and the core ideas behind the film.

Q: Wes, where did the original idea for the film come from?

WES: So, this project started when The French Dispatch was at Cannes. I remember talking to Benicio and telling him I had something in mind — an image of a man in a suit, standing there, hurting, like someone out of an Antonioni film. He was going to be in some kind of physical distress, but still invincible, wearing a very expensive watch. That was the original idea.

 Q: Did that image stay consistent, or did it evolve over time?

WES: Over time, that idea began to merge with someone from real life — my father-in-law, Fuad. He was an engineer, a businessman, a very kind man, but also intimidating in his way. He had all his work stored in shoeboxes. At one point, he walked my wife through everything because he wanted her to be prepared if something happened to him. Her reaction was exactly what we say in the movie: “This is just crazy.” So really, the character became a blend of Fuad and that original, imagined figure.

 Q: Benicio, how did you approach your character during the early development process?

BENICIO: Wes and I had many conversations while the script was still developing. A lot of the character work comes from Wes’s writing — it’s rich, layered, full of contradictions, which is really satisfying for an actor to explore.

 Q: Were there any specific moments on set where you had to discuss character motivation?

BENICIO: I remember one specific moment — my character, Zsa-Zsa Korda, meets his daughter for the first time, played by Mia Threapleton. Michael Cera’s character, the tutor, is also in the room. I said to Wes, “Look, I’m giving a lot of personal information to my daughter — about my bank accounts, private matters — and there’s this stranger just sitting there. As the character, I feel uneasy doing that.” So there was some back-and-forth, some adjustment. It was collaborative in that way.

 Q: So how did you resolve that awkward dynamic in the scene?

BENICIO: Wes said to me, “Well, we’ll polygraph him.” And I went, “Okay…” Very quickly, he came up with this idea of a lie detector — a portable pocket polygraph.

 Q: A pocket-sized lie detector? That sounds like peak Wes Anderson.

BENICIO: Yeah, there you go. In 1950, it was probably the size of this building, but Wes turned it into a pocket-sized version. He called it the lie detector. So that was part of how I found myself grounded in the moment, in the scene.

 Q: Did the character's depth come mainly from the script, or did you have to build a backstory yourself?

BENICIO: The character, though, was all there on the page. The backstory was already written. You know, with so many films we do, we often have to invent backstories for ourselves as actors. But this one — it was all built in.

 Q: Wes, the opening credits have a very striking tone. What was the intention behind that sequence?

WES: Right. Most of that Benicio can speak to better than I can. But I do remember that I had the music first — I thought, “This is the right music for this character.” In the script, I think I had written that he’s in a bathtub being attended to by several people. But the full sequence evolved from there. His experience of shooting it is probably more interesting.

 Q: Wes, how did music factor into staging and filming that scene?

WES: The music plays a huge part, too. You're syncing everything to the music. And with film, often the line between rehearsal and shooting gets blurred. But with something like this — with the music and the timing — it becomes like a dance. A ballet. So you're choreographing and filming all at once. The whole experience unfolds in real time.

Q: Mia, how did you approach building the character of Liesl and deciding what to show or hold back?

MIA: I had about three months from the time I was offered the role to when I landed in Berlin. That felt like a generous amount of time to really dig in and go as deep as I could. It involved all kinds of preparation — including talking to a deacon at a Catholic church.

I also went to Rome — I had to go there for a costume fitting, but I used the opportunity to absorb as much Catholicism as I could. I read the Bible, had conversations with Wes about specific passages, and just tried to soak everything in. I even sent him a little to-do list of everything I was doing and he responded, “Yes, this all looks very, very good.”

Q: What was your process like when it came to learning the script and internalizing Liesl’s world?

MIA: I went through the script a lot. I think I read it five times in the first week alone, just from sheer excitement and wanting to absorb every possible detail. I made tons of notes — this line means that, that probably implies something else going on underneath, and so on. It all just kind of meshed together.

We also did virtual rehearsals. I had this system where I recorded my lines, then recorded the other characters’ lines using different pitches and tones. I’d block out my parts, perform the whole thing live, and send it to Wes.

 Q: Michael, what helped you get into character the most — the environment or something else?
MICHAEL: The costume, definitely. I think the costume informs the character more than the sand does. They’re monumental.
Wes was working with Milena Canonero, who designed the costumes. By the time we arrive on set, it’s all pretty much figured out. There’s a board on the wall showing what you’ll look like. And it’s a big deal. At least for me as an actor — when you put those clothes on and see yourself in the mirror, you immediately get a strong sense of who your character is. It builds half the performance for you.

Q: Wes, what was your reaction when you saw Mia and Benicio in costume for the first time?
WES: I remember when we did that rehearsal in London. These two — Mia and Benicio — looked like their characters. The costumes are important. They’re part of the film, part of what you see. They’re not the whole story, but when these two were standing there in costume, it just clicked. I thought: okay, this is the movie. These characters work. They’re going to be great together.

Q: Benicio, how do you see your character's emotional journey?
BENICIO: I’ll jump in quickly. I think my character is someone seeking a second chance to repair a broken relationship. And to do that, he has to change — and he does. I like to believe people can change. Not everyone does, but some can, and for the better.

Q: Did that theme of transformation strike you while filming?
BENICIO: That’s a big part of the story. It’s something that moves me when I watch the film. I wasn’t necessarily thinking about it consciously while filming, but when I see it now, I think: wow, it’s really there. And I’ve seen people change like that in real life.

WES: Mm-hmm. In life.
BENICIO: In life, yeah.

Q: Michael, how do you interpret the ending of the film?
MICHAEL:
That final shot says it all. Not just that they’ve changed for the better, but that he’s found his version of what domestic happiness might look like.

Q: Wes, did you realize that theme of reconnection was central while making the film?
WES:
Yeah. I think it only fully hit me after the film was finished. Sometimes you don’t quite realize what you were doing until you see it all together. I told my agent this theory and he was like, “That’s obvious. Of course that’s what the movie’s about.” But I hadn’t realized it was so clear.

Q: Can you explain more about the metaphor of the business plan in the story?
WES:
I think this whole mission that the character goes on — he’s constantly being confronted with the possibility of death, again and again. And he thinks he's focused on a business plan he wants to see through.
But maybe that business plan is really just a vehicle to reconnect with his daughter. He acts like he's passing something on to her, naming her his successor — but in reality, it’s about what’s happening between them in the present.
The business plan becomes a kind of ritual for their reunion. And in that sense, it works out exactly as he hoped.

BENICIO: He wins.
WES: Yeah, he does well.
BENICIO: Yeah.

Q: And what’s your take on Zsa-Zsa Korda’s future at the end of the film?
WES:
Honestly, it's probably better for the world if someone like Zsa-Zsa Korda operates on a smaller, more local scale. That’s true for a lot of people. Some folks who do big things might be better off doing small things.

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